Bill Nye The NASCAR Bummer Guy

"31ModelA" (car)
01/27/2016 at 14:40 • Filed to: NASCAR, Tesla, Bill Nye, electric cars

I didn’t before, but I now love NASCAR. Over the past couple of years, I’ve had the good fortune to hang around some of the finest engineers, builders, crew chiefs, and mechanics in all of NASCAR. (Plus one middling PR drone.) What I have learned about the science, engineering, and technology required to make a stock car go 185mph for 400+ miles has blown my mind.

So you can imagine my disappointment when one the most respected spokesmen of Science, Mr. Bill Nye, declared NASCAR to be little more than an internal combustion funeral procession of slow, weak, old-timey beaters racing headlong towards that big left turn in the sky.

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Perhaps he didn’t quite go that far with his contempt for the sport, but he certainly didn’t hold back in declaring NASCAR a serious speed bump that needed to be cleared on our way towards !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . ( Achem... ) But why is Nye going on about this in the first place!?

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Nye opens the piece as any good scientist would, by declaring his bona fides. No, I’m not talking about his decades of scientific education, his mechanical engineering degree from Cornell, or even his (honorary) doctorate. I’m talking about the fact that he has family in the South. Virginia to be precise.

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He’s also been to Martinsville once. So, with his expertise established, I suppose we can get into his opinion which is, in short that ‘ NASCAR is old, dumb, dirty, and useless; if all race cars were electric right now, people would all start driving electric cars.’

Is Mr. Nye right? Could electric motorsport turn the masses on to the humming whir of pure electric motivation? Is there no place for NASCAR in modern motorsports? What will become of the humble gas man!?

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Old Tech (Caution, Graph Ahead!)

For starters, NASCAR has not used carburetors since 2012, but I can let it slide assuming Nye’s intention is to illustrate how relatively out of date the modern NASCAR Sprint Cup car (“cup car”) probably is. And that’s a hard conclusion to argue with. I’m a fan and I actually just had to google whether cup cars even have power steering. (They do!).

And it would seem that the mere fact that the question must be asked is an insult on its own. But you’d be wrong, because what the sport may be known for best is one of its most defining characteristic: doing the most with the least .

When you get to the numbers in NASCAR, it’s almost unbelievable that they manage to so much with so little. Since television only shows left turns and wrecks, we take it for granted that these metal-skinned cages go 400-500 miles at full throttle, redlining at 10,000RPM and averaging 185mph without blowing themselves to pieces every single weekend. That’s bonkers! (For comparison, the average F1 race is 189 miles.)

But being minimalist doesn’t necessarily mean that “NASCAR tech” is, as Nye opines, woefully outdated and something that should be abandoned. Nye’s declares that NASCAR tech is old, and outdated, the implication being that i lacks the capacity to inform any useful discoveries or modern designs. But I find that conclusion very shortsighted given the cup car pushrod V8's performance !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .

Now THAT’S a graph! Specifically, it’s a graph depicting peak piston velocity and acceleration at red line along all points of rotation of the crankshaft of an F1 engine and a cup engine. Some findings may make you think twice about calling cup engines old. (Come one Bill, stay with me!)

The graph depicts acceleration and velocity of the piston at all points during one 360 degree rotation of the crankshaft where the crankshaft is connected to the piston by the connecting rod. The graph does not account for the amount of time required to rotate said crankshaft. A cup engine at redline rotates at about 10,000 RPM, while an F1 engine rotates at twice that, around 20,000 RPM, which is pretty freaking awesome.

As amazing as all that is, what this actually reveals is that relative to the pinnacle of internal combustion technology, the F1 engine, the modern cup engine is phenomenally good at producing its power and withstanding astonishingly loads. The cup engine’s pistons at 10,000 RPM actually move at a greater velocity than the F1 engine’s pistons do at 20,000 RPM due to the differences in rod/stroke ratio (the ratio of the connecting rod length to the stroke distance of the crankshaft).

That rod/stroke ratio also contributes to the different acceleration curves, with the F1 piston reaching peak negative acceleration at the bottom of the stroke, while the cup car’s peak actually flattens out and remains there for a significant time. Consider too that the F1 piston package weighs in at around 298 grams, while the cup piston pack tips the scales at around 500 grams. Together with the rest of the data, we can see that the force exerted on the cup car’s connecting rod at the top and bottom of the stroke is close to 7,000lbs!!!

That’s more than an Asian Elephant or an F-350 Dually Crew Cab hanging from a single connecting rod 10,000 times every minute for, well, enough minutes to finish a 400 mile race.

And this is merely ONE of those easily overlooked pieces of engineering developed in NASCAR that is decidedly not outdated and has real world implications to the consumer. Considering that all the engine components must work in concert under the same stress, you begin to see what kind of real-world tech is coming out of this sport. A connecting rod manufactured with technology that can withstand the punishment of a full cup race is a connecting rod that is not going to fail on your daily driver, and that’s one less car in a landfill.

For Bill Nye, though, engine longevity only means that he’s gonna have to keep his hackles on end for that much longer, because...

Fuel Consumption and Power

This appears to be Nye’s number one beef: the consumption of any amount of fuel.

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This one is hard to shy away from because, as well all know, fuel makes power. And the more power you have the more horses you have and the more torques you have, and the faster you go! And so you go get even more fuel for even more power and go even faster! It’s an endless cycle! But seriously, there is no racing without it.

Unless, of course you buy electric. That’s because, as we all know quite well, electric power is transcendent. It’s monumental. The torques are forever and boundless and it wins in every drag race!

These are all 100% real.

They shouldn’t even measure electric power in horses at all, they should measure it in something bigger than horses - they should measure it in !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , which google says is bigger than a horse. It’s also extinct, which would be sort of poetic for measuring electric horsepower.

Silliness aside, though, how much power are we really talking about? Does a Tesla off the showroom (?) floor even compare with a fully race prepped cup car? The numbers might surprise you.

Or rather the numbers might evade you. It turns out they’re harder to come by than you’d think. NASCAR has recently instituted a new rules package that will see the overall horsepower of the cup cars lowered via fancy restrictor plates from 850hp to 725hp. What is not well known as of yet is how this will impact torque. Officially, it remains to be seen.

To the Tesla. Nye quotes the Tesla’s HP figure as 532, but Wikipedia puts the P85D at 691, and 762 when Ludicrous Mode is activated. Tesla torque figures are certainly out there, but they’re all over the place. While Nye quotes 713, Wikipedia puts the P85D at max torque of 687 lb-ft. Road & Track actually dynoed a P85D in Ludicrous mode and returned !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! However they also point out that the torque curve peaks sharply, and then settles out down around about 400 lb-ft. So, again, it’s tough to really say.

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Going the Distance

But since Cup races aren’t drag races, we’re really concerned about longevity and what it takes to complete a 400 mile race.

As Nye points out, a cup car gets about 4 mpg and carries at most 24 gallons of fuel on board. At 4 miles per gallon, 24 gallons will carry the car roughly 96 miles. The car could conceivably race all 400 miles on 4 fuel stops and a total fuel usage of less than 100 gallons. Unless you’re Juan Pablo Montoya, then your car gets 4 gallons per second and can’t make it around the track at all without trying (unsuccessfully) to refuel mid-lap.

For the Tesla, the story isn’t quite so clear. It’s difficult to predict what the power usage might be at sustained full throttle, but it’s certainly not going to be one mile of range per mile covered. The closest I’ve found to go by in the real world is !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! of a P85 cruising at 125mph for just short of 11 minutes.

The range at the beginning of the run at 217 miles (249km), around 40 miles short of the reported 256 mile max.

At the end of the run, range is down to 151 miles.

That’s a “consumption” of 66 miles over 11 minutes at 125mph.

At that speed and time the car covered roughly 22 miles, so “3 range miles per mile”.

If range is depleted linearly, like fuel, then the Tesla, at 125mph, would exhaust it’s 256 mile max range in around 85.5 miles.

Assuming Nye’s presumption that fully charged batteries would be on hand to swap into the depleted cars, that would mean 5 full sized Tesla P85 batteries at 1,200 lbs. a piece for a total of 6,000 lbs to complete a race. For comparison, that 5,275 lbs. more “fuel” than a cup car requires over the same distance, to say nothing of the potential longevity and environmental impact of that many batteries per car.

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And then there are the speeds. Assuming a cup car averaging 185 mph, while a Tesla is limited to a top speed of 155.

With no stops the cup car at 185mph would cover 400 miles in 2:12.

The P85 at 155mph with no stops would cover 400 miles in 2:34, 22 minutes behind the cup car.

Assume 2.5 miles per lap, the cup car covers 3 miles per minute and one lap every 50 seconds.

At 22 minutes behind, the Tesla would finish at best 18 laps down from the cup car, all things being equal.

Ugh...This is a phenomenally dumb comparison, but so is comparing a cup car to a Tesla, or a Tesla to a fictional spy’s one-off supercar. I’m sure with a tweak or two, someone could get a Tesla up to 200, though I doubt the battery would be around to see the end of the run. Like I said, it’s just a really dumb comparison.

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Fairness where fairness is due: the comparison between a cup car and any Tesla are completely without merit and useless for achieving any kind of comparison. One is a tuned hypermachine burning fuel, while the other is a consumer-grade sedan. This is, of course, where I should trot out Formula E and compare those ranges (which is typically given as 30 minutes, and not miles or kilometers), but I’m not going to because that comparison is not just dumb, it’s unwarranted. Formula E is years away from being a serious top tier series and they don’t even “refuel” (swap batteries) at pit stops, they swap the whole damn car! (That infuriates me for some reason.)

That said, I hope that one day Formula E can work out the kinks and that the engineers can figure out how to translate it to a stock car. I hope I will one day see an enormous brick of an electric stock car whirring around a track at upwards of 200 mph for hours and knowing that the engineers, designers, and builders have created a machine that can do such a thing. I hope that until then, NASCAR continues to nurture the spirit of ingenuity that the next generation of drivers and engineers and designers will need to create an electric car out of duct tape and some old potatoes, or whatever “old tech” NASCAR will adopt in the forthcoming electric age.

Electric is the future, and Nye’s sentiments are clear and on point even if his aim is about as good as a four-year old at the big kids urinal. (You’re just getting it all over your shoes, son.) The ICE is on its last laps, or at least it should be. Nonetheless, a slower, quieter, heavier, untested platform for electric stock car racing, while certainly intriguing to think about, would most certainly not sway fans today for whom there is no replacement for displacement.

Nope.

In the end, though, it all comes down to the fans. And who the hell wants to watch Dale, Jr. !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and nap his way to another checkered flag at Talladega!? Ok, that would actually be kind of awesome.

DISCUSSION (100)

BigBlock440 > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 14:40

It’s funny because electric cars are older technology than pushrod engines are.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 14:44

How dare we hone our knowledge and understanding of simple technologies to a razor edge. MOAR KOMPLICATE GO

Ash78, voting early and often > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 14:48

There is good-ass kinja and there is best-ass kinja.

This is best-ass kinja. Needs to go FP ASAP!

(And Nye’s red herring about Southern connection is about as relevant and appropriate as my opening an article about Honda by saying “there’s a Chinese guy I work with. Well, his parents are Chinese. Taiwanese, specifically.” Lolwut?)

Now that I’m thinking about it, why don’t Olympic sprinters use rollerblades? I mean, that would probably be faster, right? NFL, too.

jariten1781 > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 14:50

one the most respected spokesmen of Science, Mr. Bill Nye

Huh?

31ModelA > jariten1781
01/27/2016 at 14:51

yep

unclevanos (Ovaltine Jenkins) > BigBlock440
01/27/2016 at 14:51

In engineering the pushrod is an ideal motor for its simplicity and less moving parts. Large diesel engines use pushrods still, so that proves that aren’t a ancient relic. We can design a engine or car with many more moving parts but it can become a kinematic nightmare.

For Sweden > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 14:55

Bill Nye the Engineer With No PhD Guy

McMike > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 14:58

They say that the most inconvenient part about electric cars would be the having to stop every once in a while and perform a lengthy charge to the batteries. If applied to racing, that would take a lot out of the racing. The drama, the speed, etc..

NASCAR is halfway there with their Caution Clock idea, so why not?

Throw the flag, let them all return to the charging stations while we all take a break and go the bathroom, make a snack, run out and get another 12 pack, or find something else entirely to watch.

wiffleballtony > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:00

Your conclusion is incorrect. Dale Jr won’t even be in the car to nap. Unless it’s a side sport to see who can fall asleep in a NASCAR at speed during the race.

Also people need to let their “causes” not get in the way of something that is a sport. Lighten up.

Leon711 > For Sweden
01/27/2016 at 15:00

Hey now! I’m an engineer with no PhD.

Party-vi > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:01

Valve pushrods are ancient tech, just as fucking ancient as OHC valves.

Takuro Spirit > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:01

Not gonna lie, would watch this:

Kinja'd!!!

For Sweden > Leon711
01/27/2016 at 15:03

Me too. We can all be useless together.

rdev44477777 > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:03

NASCRAP!!!!

SyrianLanister > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:03

bill nye...just go away

how he became relevant in the last few years baffles me

crowmolly > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:04

If they want to fix anything they should fix race length.

Yeah, everybody bitches about all kinds of things with NASCAR. Tech, personalities, stupid rules, the Chase, etc.

But nothing sucks quite has hard as hearing “I’m just gonna burn laps for the next hour” over your scanner from 10+ different racers. At home it’s “Watch the first 25-50 laps and then tune out until it’s almost over”.

drdude > For Sweden
01/27/2016 at 15:05

Me three... thats why I can be on the interwebs all day.

facw > McMike
01/27/2016 at 15:05

Better idea. NASCAR powered bumpercar style. Metal track and live wire mesh above. All the electric power you need, no pitstops for fuel. No pollution. Random sparking!

facw > McMike
01/27/2016 at 15:07

Alternatively, if you are set on battery powered cars, just drop the pack at the pitstop and jack a new one in. Doesn’t have to be any harder or slower than changing tires.

TDI Rex > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:07

I’ve met Bill Nye. He’s kind of a dick.

DNRTA.

TheCraigy > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:09

Bill Nye is kind of an asshole.

Future next gen S2000 owner > McMike
01/27/2016 at 15:10

I would be okay if this was done in the form of heat racing. Take the bottom third of the running order off the track every 30 minutes. Pit for fuel, tires, and adjustments. Line them back up and go again.

Putz > For Sweden
01/27/2016 at 15:11

I have BA in Communications can I tag along?

...Guys? Hello?

Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:11

Nascar is amazing, I just wish it had a little more in common with cars you could buy off the showroom floor. Dammit I want a V8 Camry.

CleganeBowlConfirmed > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:11

NASCAR didn’t have power steering always. At one point, it was prohibited.

Zip-McBump > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:12

I’m at a loss as to how an intelligent person like Nye can say that NASCAR contributes nothing to the greater society.

I am NOT a NASCAR fan by any stretch of the imagination, but how can it not be argued that NASCAR is one of the most severe endurance tests on drivetrain components? This information undoubtedly makes its way to company engineers which in turn, improves the lifespan of drivetrain components. This results in less waste in the form of salvaged cars.

OrphanCarsR-Us > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:13

Paraceratheriums

I applaud you sir.

SNL-LOL > For Sweden
01/27/2016 at 15:13

Hey hey I was like a little more than a dissertation away from a PhD.

I want a PhD like I want HIV.

jariten1781 > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:13

I'll give you 'one of the most visible'.

Prophet of hoon > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:14

Bill Nye, the angry, science guy. What is with him? It seems as the years go by he gets angrier and angrier...

Vlan1 > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:14

Nascar is still boring.

Illegal Machine > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:14

Here’s a Kinja for you: Bill Nye is a nutjob who will push an argument against anything (big or small) to support his agenda.

His agenda being: Get Climate Change in the press as much as possible.

RallyWrench > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:15

This should be FP’d, great work. NASCAR gets a bad rap, but manufacturers learn all kinds of useful things from the engine development in particular. Then there’s the brakes on the road-race chassis, which hold up under some of the hardest punishment in motorsport.

Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:15

I wouldn’t be surprised - heck, I’d actually think NASCAR will soon, one day, go the way of Nintendo; dumbing everything down and fading to nothingness.

Prophet of hoon > Ash78, voting early and often
01/27/2016 at 15:15

I’m not raciest because I know someone who is of that race... never realized it applied to cars too.

Naughty0ne2Pointoh > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:16

Bill Nye has a bachelors degree in engineering. He is a respected scientist because idiots think he is an actual scientist. Why care what he thinks about NASCAR?

Prettyboy Superdumb > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:16

Really, the headline here is that a non-racing fan doesn’t understand the allure or purpose of racing. Racing is about the competition, not just advancing streetcar technology. That’s not really the goal.

What he also fails to understand is that racing doesn’t really do as much for passenger car development as people seem to think (and the manufactures try to tell you). A lot of the big auto manufactures will spend $5b+ per year on their R&D. The few million they kick into racing is truly a marketing expense, even at the highest levels. Anything ‘learned’ in racing is going to have to be completely rethought before it ever reaches the streets, and thats because the goals of a racecar are completely different then the goals of a streetcar.

So while completely retooling NASCAR into a technology only development tool might help streetcar designs in an incredibly minescule way, it would also torpedo the actual competition people watch racing for in the first place.

McMike > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:16

A lot of the F1 engine data is a little dated. They don’t run to 20K anymore. Haven’t in years. They have been limited to 18K for a while towards the end of the V8 era. Now, with the V6-Hybrid engines they are limited to 15K, but none of them run that high because of high fuel use.

Most of them these days redline at 12K during the race.

proscandinavianflickflinger > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:17

Hey everyone, lets all hate racing because it burns fuel and uses internal combustion and contributes significantly to global warming and the death of the Leopard print polar oxen.

The measurement of fuel economy on a race car is also pretty stupid. I mean, great for the race and competiton, but Mr. Billy is implicitly comparing it to the fuel economy of a household car. Who gives a shit if a race car is getting 0.1mpg?

Montoviro > Leon711
01/27/2016 at 15:18

Post a photo of your H1B visa or you’re lying.

GV_Goat > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:18

Let’s see, Bill Nye, the engineer and self-proclaimed “science guy” (whatever the fuck that is) is ridiculing real engineers that actually do amazing things? LOL. Who cares.

Will with a W8 races an E30 > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:19

It’s still a valid point that NASCAR is not driving new technology. Regardless of how good the engineers designing the cars are (and I have immense respect for them), their designs have no impact whatsoever on modern passenger cars. In the past they might have - Manufacturers used to develop one off street cars specifically to compete in NASCAR, but those days are over and most of the motorsports tech now trickling into everyday cars is coming from sportscar racing and WEC. Maybe NASCAR should try to take back their spot as the series driving innovation in production cars (electric or otherwise)?

FloridaMatt > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:21

Advanced technology Nascar-style is akin to advancing dial-telephone technology with a requirement to keep the dial.

Jcarr > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:21

Shame. I enjoyed Bill Nye as the quirky science teacher type when I was a kid in the 90s.

Now he seems like little more than a condescending political jerk.

magus-21 > jariten1781
01/27/2016 at 15:22

President of the Planetary Society. I’d say he’s pretty respected.

With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username > Leon711
01/27/2016 at 15:22

He’s not an engineer, or a scientist. He’s a sciencey-ist.

Autohaus Derp > For Sweden
01/27/2016 at 15:23

#BEngLivesMatter

Max > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:24

Billdo Nye couldn’t sink in a lake. He’s just another useful idiot fake science tool.

Jimmy Joe Meeker > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:24

Celebrity scientists exist to push political and social agendas.

Montoviro > TheCraigy
01/27/2016 at 15:25

Blair, is that you ?

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:26

“NASCAR Technology”

Kinja'd!!!

Slo-Z > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:26

The title should be Bill Nye Doesn’t Like Cars. I like small high-revving compacts, but the first time I heard a Z06 with that 7-liter it sent chills up my spine, as did as did the S2000's engine bouncing off the limiter. Only one who doesn’t like cars would say some sh*t like that.

RedHotFuzz > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:26

Most annoying (and desperate for attention) “science guy”: Bill Nye or Neil deGrasse Tyson? Too close to call, but Tyson appears to have an edge for including the maiden name (and 3 names are more than 2, mathematically speaking (SCIENCE!!!)).

Jimmy Joe Meeker > For Sweden
01/27/2016 at 15:26

He doesn’t even have an MS degree.

StalePhish > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:26

If they raced normal streetable cars in NASCAR, it wouldn’t be as entertaining. Part of the thrill of the whole thing is that you’re around big loud cars that you don’t find on the street, packed into a stadium like you’re watching a football game. That is why most NASCAR tracks are ovals. It’s very difficult to get a good vantage point if the track were to wiggle around behind your seat. Just imagine if a football fields weren’t rectangular. You would only been able to see half the game from your seat! And if the cars were quietly zipping around, it would almost be like you’re watching it on TV. When you’re in the stands at a NASCAR race, you can feel the cars whooshing around in the depths of your chest.

55_mercury > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:26

Still a boring ass sport technology or not.

jeff4066 > Ash78, voting early and often
01/27/2016 at 15:27

Him Southern? Ha! I was raised in Rockingham. I rubbed shoulders (or their knees since I was very small at the time) with some of the greats. I saw manly pit crews in jeans and t-shirts. I snorted enough gas fumes to probably have altered my DNA.

marshamallow > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:27

You sir are a damn saint!

Mercedes Streeter > For Sweden
01/27/2016 at 15:27

Associates in Network Systems Administration. Can I join this club?

RedHotFuzz > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:27

What's racing without noise? Lame, that's what.

ThatGuyToolingAroundInTheShitbox > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:28

Bill Nye doesn’t ‘get it’ on the same level as the people that decided Die Hard needed a prequel tv series.

I used to respect this guy.

Lately, he’s just an out of touch crank.

Die hero, live villain, etc etc

Matt Brown > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:28

It’s been almost a decade since I worked as an engineer for a Nascar team, but I definitely got the impression that most people involved kind of wanted it to be 1985. The engineering challenge is definitely making the best of old technologies: pushrod engines, truck arm suspension, unequal length intake runners (that one was fun).

One of my favorite challenges was the front splitter supports. The first year they had them, the only rules pertaining to them had to do with their location. One of the teams showed up with carbon fiber supports and didn’t make it past tech (In Nascar, even if it meets the letter of the rules, tech will tell you to take a hike if it is too fancy). We did some scale wind tunnel testing and noticed that larger supports reduced drag by basically keeping the air from piling up above the splitter. So on the tracks where we needed to reduce drag and could take a downforce loss we used really big fasteners and links to support the splitter, like way overbuilt. It looked like a blind English Lit intern engineered them.

That was really the challenge in Nascar, spending lots of time and money engineering something and then making it look like it was put together in a shed in North Carolina.

The rules also push really esoteric designs; you can only use X% of some alloy in your valves, so you get these finely engineered components that have no place outside that racing series, and sometimes one or two tracks. It almost doesn’t even matter what “level” of technology you’re using; if they used electric powertrains, it would still be specialized enough to not matter off the track.

I’m going to stop typing and get back to work now.

Huffytoss > For Sweden
01/27/2016 at 15:28

Most engineers don’t have PhD because we are working out in industry doing stuff. Those that do, don’t know how to make things work.

The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:29

NASCAR is the last of its breed in motorsport. Most series now are moving to hybrid systems. NASCAR still uses small block V8's pushing well over 100hp/L, screaming up to 9000rpm. They actually pass each other, allow contact. It may look dated on TV but has lots tech behind the scenes. Go visit one of the race shops or a few and you will have a whole new respect for it.

freds4hb > For Sweden
01/27/2016 at 15:29

Engineers don’t worry about Phd’s they get stamps and make cool stuff work well.

EvilSuperMonkey > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:29

Now imagine if all that NASCAR ingenuity went into electric. They’ll have to go there eventually.

mr2gud2u > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:29

Sometimes I have to wonder if people really understand where electricity comes from. I get the feeling folks think it is free and is made put of thin air. If we all drove electric cars would the environment really be better off or would it be just a wash.

Will with a W8 races an E30 > Zip-McBump
01/27/2016 at 15:31

As somebody who actually designs drivetrain components - no, the lessons from NASCAR no longer make it back to the OEMs. NASCAR isn’t driving any technology in any significant way. They have armies of incredibly talented engineers doing an incredible job of applying existing technology in a way that makes a car go incredibly fast but that has no applicability to modern passenger car design.

Mercedes Streeter > GV_Goat
01/27/2016 at 15:31

Well he is President of the Planetary Society...so he’s a science guy all the way...he’s just not an engineer.

palmofnapalm > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:31

At least he didn’t come at the sport with some bullshit back-of-the-napkin physics that was immediately proved wrong and then refused to apologize or admit fault, like another TV celebrity scientist !

Clutchman83 > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:31

This is a good takedown but I know what Bill was trying to do here and I suspect it’s actually pretty innocent. He’s passionate about climate change so he picked what he thought was an easy target for an analogy but clearly he actually doesn’t know fuck all about motor racing.

Full disclosure, I grew up and live near Seattle and I’ve met him a few times. He always seemed really nice in person.

unclespok > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:31

Bill Nye is more politicsthan science these days and is bordering on elitism.

ivan256 > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:32

Somebody should remind Bill Nye that he’s supposedly all about not letting an agenda get in the way of a conclusion.

And also that he runs on carbon based fuel too. He best cut back on those calorie burning leisure pursuits.... The probably compare extremely poorly against fans-entertained-per-gallon in NASCAR.

(Seriously, can we ban MPG as a statistic? It’s stupid. It only makes sense if the ONLY thing you care about is moving your vehicle from point A to point B most efficiently. But we care about more than that. So if we need an efficiency measure, let’s use watt-hours per gallon or something.

GranTourer > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:33

Like nascar getting 4.5mpg is even a drop in the bucket compared to the millions of other cars on the road. Boo hoo Bill Nye. Once again someone spouting off about what they think other people should be doing. Do your own shit, Bill Bill Bill.

Mercedes Streeter > Prophet of hoon
01/27/2016 at 15:34

If I were in his position, I would be. The science he usually aligns with (climate change) is still a science that’s unfortunately drenched in idiotic politics.

THE_MOUTH_OF_FORCORNERSTV > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:34

SCIENCED. also, silent race cars? GTFO.

Azzy > Mercedes Streeter
01/27/2016 at 15:34

Associates in Drafting and design, but play a product designer in my not so spare time :) Im in! Cheese dip?

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Putz
01/27/2016 at 15:34

the hysterical thing is that you’re in the gray so you aren’t communicating effectively.

GV_Goat > Mercedes Streeter
01/27/2016 at 15:35

Yeah, I guess you don’t need a degree in astrophysics or even astronomy to be President of the Planetary Society... hmmm.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:36

MY biggest complaint about NASCAR is that they aren’t stock cars anymore.

And I don’t just mean safety. I get the safety additions. But I would rather see an event similar to Australian V8 Super Cars because it’s relatable.

They can keep burning Dino’s I’m fine with that.

HellPhish89 > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:36

Some random famous scientist being ignorant of motor racing (willful or not)? Shocked I tell you. Just shocked.

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:36

Kinja'd!!!

I think that NASCAR is missing a giant opportunity by not showing any interest in the DTM-SuperGT partnership.

Also, you don’t have to go electric, to have technologically advanced, quality racing.

Kinja'd!!!

You just need to set up good rules, good BoP, and let the smart people from the development teams come up with the best ideas for each team.

Huffytoss > unclevanos (Ovaltine Jenkins)
01/27/2016 at 15:36

But a more complicated engine is more efficient. If you were to build a 5.86L V8 with no other restrictions to compete in Nascar, you would not have a pushrod engine.

jedre > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:36

So.... you agree?

The fuel consumption is irresponsible, and the revenue, interest, and engineering support would drive technological advancements.

NASCAR would do well to at least develop a series for electric cars. It would be amazing PR and help develop something beneficial to the world.

HellPhish89 > For Sweden
01/27/2016 at 15:36

You’re probably busy designing things though. So, in reality, you are more useful than Nye >_>

GranTourer > Will with a W8 races an E30
01/27/2016 at 15:37

Why can’t they race what they want to?

Big Block I-4 > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:37

A Tesla at full gate (155mph) would use electric even faster than the 125mph used here, not too mention at 200mph. I would assume it would be a significant difference too, because as we know with the law of diminishing returns getting extra MPH at those numbers gets significantly harder than say going from 100-125, so maintaining even 155 would be a huge drain on range.

Edit: Fun read BTW!

Jcarr > Putz
01/27/2016 at 15:38

Don’t worry, we Comms folk have more fun anyway.

QuestMGD > Jcarr
01/27/2016 at 15:39

His level of science competence is only impressive to a kid. If you look at some of his questionable scientific proclamations and even some of the experiments he has been performing you really have to wonder how celebrity has surpassed actual knowledge in today’s society. Might as well have a Kardassian do a science show.

Travis M. Cotton > For Sweden
01/27/2016 at 15:39

Warranted:

Kinja'd!!!

Jimmy Joe Meeker > unclevanos (Ovaltine Jenkins)
01/27/2016 at 15:39

Henry Ford and his flathead V8 would like a word with you about simplicity and moving parts ;)

8695Beaters > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:39

While I appreciate the tech currently in NASCAR (the fact that all the cars are hand built never ceases to amaze me), there is not a single piece of unique hardware on a Cup car today and the further down the series you get, the older the technology goes. Is it impressive that NASCAR engines can rev how they do? Yes, but it was F1 engineers who figured out how to make those engines rev to the moon to begin with. Is the new EFI and telemetry system really advanced and interesting? It sure is, but open wheel cars have had that for a quarter century. NASCAR is about the show, not the technology. They never were, nor will they ever be, a technological edge crusher.

Forget the opening pargraphs and focus on Bill’s conclusion (quoted below). This is his overarching point and what we should be focusing on.

Let me offer a backward-looking yet forward-thinking story. When I was a kid, auto-racing was where new technology was developed rather than where old technology was preserved or even celebrated. We admired cars that went faster and could be manoeuvered well. Next time you’re in the Indianapolis Motor Speedway Hall of Fame Museum, check out the STP-Paxton Turbocar. It almost won the 1967 Indianapolis 500 race with a helicopter turbine engine adapted for car racing. The car led for 170 of the 200 laps, almost the entire race. A ball-bearing cracked on the third-to-last lap. Race officials could tell that, if they allowed this type of innovative car to come back year after year, racing teams would have a chance to test it further, and make additional improvements to this sure-win innovation. Soon, all the other racecars would be obsolete. Instead of embracing this innovation, they changed the permitted size of the intake duct so that it was too small to enable a turbine car to keep up.

I’m not saying we should all be driving turbine engine-powered cars. I’m saying racing should be about the future rather than the past. How about NASCAR becoming NESCAR (National Electric Stock Car Racing)? The sooner NASCAR (or NESCAR) embraces electric drive trains, the sooner the US can be the world leader in automotive technology, and the sooner we can stop pumping carbon dioxide into the air every time we want to go somewhere to get groceries, pick up the soccer team, commute to work or watch a race.

I completely agree. Racing today is about ratings and marketing, not innovation and technological upheaval. Fans piss all over innovative ideas like the Delta Wing and GT-R LM Nismo, but without them technology stagnates. I think Bill only uses NASCAR as an easy reference, since most Americans know what NASCAR is and that’s more than a bit misguided. But I think his final point is one us racing fans should be asking and pushing for...and NOT lambasting strange ideas just because they aren’t what we’re used to.

smithncustom > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:39

bill = propagandist

bill = pawn

Gurble > With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username
01/27/2016 at 15:40

He’s a scientician

Houndz > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:40

The sounds.

Travis M. Cotton > jariten1781
01/27/2016 at 15:40

I was thinking the same thing.

Huffytoss > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:42

Nascar is old tech. It’s literally taking a 60/70's era car and applying technology developed in other industries to refine the same basic design without actually changing it.

So who supplies the ECU and sensors to Nascar when they went to fuel injection...some British company called McLaren.

logruszed > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:44

The sound and vibration seem to me to be a huge part of engaging the fans in motorsports. I don’t think the events will be as interesting/exciting without all the byproducts of a huge ICE.

Will with a W8 races an E30 > GranTourer
01/27/2016 at 15:44

They can, and they do.

ChasingTarmac > 31ModelA
01/27/2016 at 15:44

I think its cooler to watch electrics compete head to head with traditional racecars. There is a team on the East Coast based out of PA running at least 3 electrics in normal race events from hill climbs to wheel to wheel racing at SCCA events and others. They’ve been pretty successful with no special concessions given to them for being electric.

I think they’re currently in DC for the Auto Show.

https://www.facebook.com/ElectrifyingRa…